Cynulliad Cenedlaethol Cymru The National Assembly for Wales Y Pwyllgor Iechyd a Gofal Cymdeithasol The Health and Social Care Committee
Dydd Iau, 28 Chwefror 2013 Thursday, 28 February 2013
Cynnwys Contents Cyflwyniad, Ymddiheuriadau a Dirprwyon Introduction, Apologies and Substitutions Ystyried y Dull o Weithio ar y Memorandwm Cydsyniad Deddfwriaethol: Y Bil Plant a Theuluoedd Consideration of Approach to Legislative Consent Memorandum: Children and Families Bill Papurau i’w Nodi Papers to Note Cynnig o dan Reol Sefydlog Rhif 17.42 i Benderfynu Gwahardd y Cyhoedd Motion under Standing Order No. 17.42 to Resolve to Exclude the Public
Cofnodir y trafodion yn yr iaith y llefarwyd hwy ynddi yn y pwyllgor. Yn ogystal, cynhwysir trawsgrifiad o’r cyfieithu ar y pryd. The proceedings are reported in the language in which they were spoken in the committee. In addition, a transcription of the simultaneous interpretation is included.
Aelodau’r pwyllgor yn bresennol Committee members in attendance
Mick Antoniw	Llafur Labour
Mark Drakeford	Llafur (Cadeirydd y Pwyllgor) Labour (Committee Chair)
Rebecca Evans	Llafur Labour
Vaughan Gething	Llafur Labour
William Graham	Ceidwadwyr Cymreig Welsh Conservatives
Elin Jones	Plaid Cymru The Party of Wales
Darren Millar	Ceidwadwyr Cymreig Welsh Conservatives
Lynne Neagle	Llafur Labour
Lindsay Whittle	Plaid Cymru The Party of Wales
Kirsty Williams	Democratiaid Rhyddfrydol Cymru Welsh Liberal Democrats
Swyddogion Cynulliad Cenedlaethol Cymru yn bresennol National Assembly for Wales officials in attendance
Sarah Beasley	Clerc Clerk
Sarah Sargent	Dirprwy Glerc Deputy Clerk
Dechreuodd y cyfarfod am 9.00 a.m. The meeting began at 9.00 a.m.
Cyflwyniad, Ymddiheuriadau a Dirprwyon Introduction, Apologies and Substitutions
[1] Mark Drakeford: Bore da a chroeso i chi i gyd. Dyma ni unwaith eto yn y Pwyllgor Iechyd a Gofal Cymdeithasol. Nid wyf am fynd drwy bopeth o dan eitem 1; mae popeth fel ag sy’n arferol. Nid ydym wedi derbyn ymddiheuriadau, felly bydd Aelodau eraill yma cyn bo hir, siŵr o fod.		Mark Drakeford: Good morning and welcome to you all. Here we are again at the Health and Social Care Committee. I will not go through everything under item 1; everything is as it always is. We have not received any apologies, so I am sure that other Members will be here before long.
9.01 a.m.
Ystyried y Dull o Weithio ar y Memorandwm Cydsyniad Deddfwriaethol: Y Bil Plant a Theuluoedd Consideration of Approach to Legislative Consent Memorandum: Children and Families Bill
[2] Mark Drakeford: Members will all have seen the paper providing advice on this legislative consent memorandum. A similar paper was considered yesterday by the Children and Young People Committee, because the Business Committee referred this LCM to both committees. The Children and Young People Committee agreed to write to the Minister concerned, drawing her attention to the issues set out in paragraphs 14 and 15 of the paper that we have in front of us. We do not have to do it the same way, but there are some deadlines involved. The Business Committee agreed that the committee should report on the LCM by 11 April in order for it to be debated in Plenary on 16 April, but because that reporting deadline falls within the Easter recess, in practice, we will have to conclude anything that we want to say and report by Friday, 22 March. There is no easily identifiable space in our timetable to carry out an oral session with the Minister on it.
[3] Vaughan Gething: I am content to write to the Minister. The issues that are raised are not so fundamental that we would want to call the Minister to the committee, in any event. I am happy to write and to look at what the Minister proposes. We will also have an opportunity to discuss matters in Plenary, and we can consider what we will want to say in our report, bearing in mind what the Minister says in her response.
[4] Mark Drakeford: Paragraph 14 is, essentially, asking for clarification from the Minister on timing issues, asking her to explain how this issue was not captured within the Social Services and Well-being (Wales) Bill and to what extent Welsh Ministers were aware of these issues and could have incorporated them. Paragraph 15 is a matter about the adoption register, on which the Children and Young People Committee, as you know, has recently completed a big piece of work. Are there any other views, other than writing in the terms that the report suggests? William, are you okay with that?
[5] William Graham: I am content with that.
[6] Mark Drakeford: Elin, is there anything further that you would suggest?
[7] Elin Jones: No, I am fine with that.
[8] Mark Drakeford: So, we will write, and will have a reply in time for us to consider it, and we will be able to make a report by 22 March, which meets our deadlines. There will also be a debate in Plenary, so if Members feel that there are points from the correspondence that they want to pursue further directly with the Minister, there will be an opportunity to do that.
9.04 a.m.
Papurau i’w Nodi Papers to Note
[9] Mark Drakeford: Mae nifer o bapurau i’w nodi. Mae llythyr oddi wrth y Gweinidog ynglŷn â’r Bil y byddwn yn ei ystyried heddiw. Roeddem yn siarad am y llythyr hwnnw yn y cyfarfod diwethaf, ac rydym wedi ei roi ar agenda heddiw er mwyn cyhoeddi’r llythyrau.		Mark Drakeford: There are many papers to note. There is a letter from the Minister about the Bill that we will be considering today. We were talking about that letter at the previous meeting, and we have included it on today’s agenda in order to publish the correspondence.
[10] Rydym wedi cael llythyr oddi wrth y ddeoniaeth, yn dilyn ein cyfarfod â hi ar 10 Ionawr. Nid wyf yn siŵr a yw Aelodau am fynd yn ôl at y ddeoniaeth yn sgîl y wybodaeth bellach y mae wedi ei rhoi yn y llythyr.		We have received a letter from the deanery, following our meeting with it on 10 January. I am not sure whether Members would like to get back to the deanery in the light of the further information that it has given in the letter.
[11] Elin Jones: Nid ar hyn o bryd. Mae’r ddeoniaeth wedi dweud wrthym y bydd yn gwneud penderfyniadau yn y misoedd nesaf. Efallai fod eisiau inni ddweud wrthi y bydd gennym ddiddordeb mewn clywed am y rhesymeg ac ynglŷn â’r penderfyniadau wrth iddynt godi.		Elin Jones: Not at this time. The deanery has told us that it will be making decisions over the next few months. We might want to tell it that we will be interested in hearing the reasoning and learning what the decisions are as they arise.
[12] Mark Drakeford: Dyna ni. Felly, byddwn yn cadw mewn cysylltiad â’r ddeoniaeth i weld sut y mae pethau’n bwrw ymlaen dros y misoedd nesaf.		Mark Drakeford: There we are. So, we will stay in touch with the deanery to see how things develop over the coming months.
[13] Llythyr yw’r papur olaf, oddi wrth y Gweinidog unwaith eto. Mae wedi ysgrifennu atom am rai o’r pethau a godwyd yn y cyfarfod ym mis Rhagfyr. Dyma’r llythyr yn ateb y pethau olaf nad oedd wedi delio â hwy yn y llythyr gwreiddiol.		The final paper is a letter, once again from the Minister. She has written to us about some of the things that arose at the December meeting. This is the letter that responds to the final things that she did not address in the original correspondence.
[14] That sort of clears up the remaining points that are not covered in her original letter as a result of the meeting on 5 December.
[15] A yw pawb yn hapus gyda hynny? Gwelaf eich bod.		Is everyone happy with that? I see that you are.
9.07 a.m.
Cynnig o dan Reol Sefydlog Rhif 17.42 i Benderfynu Gwahardd y Cyhoedd Motion under Standing Order No. 17.42 to Resolve to Exclude the Public
[16] Mark Drakeford: I am going to move a motion to meet in private. I will just explain that this motion is going to cover a number of our next meetings. We are at something of a confluence in the work of the committee, in that two big pieces of legislative work are just coming to a conclusion, in relation to asbestos and human transplantation, and we are about to embark on two new pieces of work in Stage 1 scrutiny of the Social Services and Well-being (Wales) Bill and in setting up the short inquiry that we are going to conduct the other side of Easter into medical technologies. We have a couple of meetings coming up at which we will meet in private, because they are more round-table, exploratory events to allow us to take an overview of these topics and to hear from people who will speak to us in a wide-ranging way about the things that we will need to think about. So, it is not conventional evidence taking; it will not be on the record in the normal way. They have all come together, so you will see that we will be meeting in private for the rest of today, and on 6 and 14 March, and for the first item of the meeting on 20 March. The committee is rather going into purdah, mimicking what will be going on in the Sistine Chapel. [Laughter.] We will eventually emerge back into the sunlight in a couple of weeks’ time.
[17] Elin Jones: You would make an excellent pope, Mark. Wear the red slippers. [Laughter.]
[18] Mark Drakeford: Cynigiaf fod		Mark Drakeford: I move that
y pwyllgor yn penderfynu gwahardd y cyhoedd yn unol â Rheol Sefydlog Rhif 17.42 ar gyfer gweddill busnes y cyfarfod heddiw, y cyfarfod ar 6 Mawrth, y cyfarfod ar 14 Mawrth, ac eitem 1 y cyfarfod ar 20 Mawrth.		the committee resolves to exclude the public in accordance with Standing Order No. 17.42 from the remainder of today’s business, the meeting of 6 March, the meeting of 14 March, and item 1 of the meeting of 20 March.
[19] Gwelaf fod yr Aelodau’n fodlon â hynny. Diolch yn fawr am y penderfyniad hwnnw.		[20] I see that the Members are content with that. Thank you for that decision.
Derbyniwyd y cynnig. Motion agreed.
Daeth rhan gyhoeddus y cyfarfod i ben am 9.09 a.m. The public part of the meeting ended at 9.09 a.m.